Ingrid, I agree with you about the bread machines. I use mine when I am in a hurry and it makes an OK loaf of bread and I do use the bread machine when I am in a hurry or pressed for time. But I have been baking bread for many years, and nothing can beat a loaf made by hand, or mostly by hand. I knead my dough in a Bosch Bread mixer. It kneads 4 loaves at a time and does a wonderful job kneading whole wheat bread dough. I finish the keading and shaping by hand. The silky feel of the dough is great. Also, I can be much more creative with added ingredients and still get a good result. No failures the old fashion way.